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Transcript

Navigating UX Careers with Meltem Naz and Marvin Hassan

In this interview, we talk with UX career coaches Meltem Naz and Marvin Hassan about navigating UX careers, getting unstuck, and thriving in today's job market.

Introduction

Meltem: I'm a Barcelona-based UX career coach. I work with UX professionals across disciplines to help them figure out their next step and strategize for their careers. I also offer webinars, courses, workshops, and trainings for organizations, but coaching has been central to what I've been doing over the last year.

Marvin: I've been in the design industry for a bit over 20 years now. I also work with UX professionals, mostly mid-career professionals, and help them get unstuck and find out what the next path could be and how to get there.

What Does It Mean to Get "Stuck"?

Marvin: One of the first things that comes to mind is that in UX, we are taught to work in a certain way and have all these methods and tools at our disposal. Then we hit reality and find out that real-life jobs don't look as we were taught, which becomes difficult and frustrating. Many senior people reach a level where they don't know what's next. They have all the tools and methods, but they still aren't making the impact they want or are no longer happy with what they're doing.

We work together to uncover what really motivates them around their job and UX design, how they got there, what their strengths are, and how to reconnect that to their next step, whether it's leadership or transitioning to a different role entirely. It's really based on who you are as an individual, what your strengths and skills are, and what motivates you.

Meltem: I agree with everything Marvin said. What's fascinating is that being stuck can look and feel different than what we might expect. It's not always someone experiencing burnout or getting laid off. I have clients who are very well-paid at the best organizations in their country—everything looks great on paper—but they feel stuck. They don't know their next steps, don't wake up motivated, and don't feel like they're growing.

Similar to Marvin's approach, I encourage folks to look inward first. Understand yourself better: Where does that feeling come from? Which strengths do you identify with? What are your passion areas? We get unstuck by setting goals where we have leverage and control—internal things we can track and trace. Maybe the results won't be exactly what we want right away, but we move toward them.

Marvin: It's not always about getting more salary or external validation. For some clients, the answer has been to not move up further but rather to specialize or find a narrower path than the broad "I can do everything in UX" approach. The beauty of the UX field is that it's so broad that you can find something truly yours that makes you happy. We spend so much time at work, it would be a shame to waste the privilege of being creative and having a fulfilling job by staying stuck.

Let's divide these people who are stuck into different buckets. Let's start with people who are elsewhere, doing something else. What advice would you give these people considering a job in the industry nowadays?

Meltem: For career transitioners who might not necessarily be juniors in their field but are taking a leap of faith to do something new in UX, the first consideration is not to start from zero. Really understand what transferable skills you have and what you've learned in your previous work that would be a good match for UX.

UX is a field that's interdisciplinary in nature, which is why we're all attracted to it. It can welcome people from different walks of life, different training, and different professional experiences. So it's about understanding what you've done, what results you've delivered, and what value you created in previous roles that could make you a better designer or researcher. This would be the first exercise I'd encourage people to do to get unstuck, then identify opportunities and go for them.

Marvin: Transferable skills are top priority for me as well. The second thing I'd say to all people stepping into design, whether transitioning or starting new after university: give yourself time. Right now, we have this trend of people rushing through UX education, doing a bootcamp for a few months, and then wanting to be ready for the market.

As we said earlier, UX is a really broad field, and to do it well takes time. You have to learn and study the methods and skills needed to be an impactful designer. I wish for people to give themselves more time to discover where they excel rather than just jumping in. I understand bills need to be paid, but don't stop learning just because you've completed a course.

To people who are already in UX and want to step up, grow, get a promotion, or get better at what they do. What advice would you give those people who are maybe two or three years in?

Marvin: My advice is twofold. First, investigate why you want to move forward and what you're seeking. If you're not clear on that, it's hard to find something satisfactory. If it's about money and you just need a promotion for a raise, that's totally valid—but it's different than if you want more impact, influence, or a more strategic conceptual role.

Second, invest in yourself. Obviously, as a career coach, I recommend working with someone who can help you reflect on what you're already good at and build a path for you. But also—and this is critical—work with your manager. If you're looking for a promotion, your manager can be a partner in getting you there. They're not just evaluating and saying yes or no; they can help you succeed. Good managers will be happy about you reaching out and asking how to improve and get promoted because it makes their lives easier. They're being paid for you to succeed, so working with them creates a win-win situation.

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Meltem: I agree with everything Marvin said. When looking at my experiences with clients in this bucket, I see those who don't want to get stuck in their projects anymore. They want broader influence in the business.

Along with understanding what you're seeking and collaborating with your manager, networking is crucial. Understand what people within your organization care about, how they articulate their goals and initiatives, and what they need to achieve success. If you as a UX professional can find ways to help others advance, this will lift you up. You'll become someone who isn't just tasked with certain projects but can have a broader influence on OKRs, strategic vision, and much more. This is how you become more senior and strategic—by seeing beyond individual projects.

Marvin: Without visibility in an organization, moving up the career ladder as a designer can be tough. You won't get there just by hunkering down, doing the hard work, and bringing great design results, because they won't be seen as much in organizations that aren't as mature in UX as we'd wish.

So, as Meltem said, reach out to colleagues, find out how their goals are set up, and use your unique skills to help them achieve their goals. This helps you stand out. When promotion rounds come up, everyone will know your name, making it easier for your manager to make a case for you.

Meltem: Do that networking diagonally—not just with your manager, but also with people at your manager's level (vertically) as well as horizontally.

I'd like to address those people who maybe want to move but don't know exactly where. They feel stuck but don't have any direction. What would your advice be for those people?

Marvin: If you're stuck and don't know where to go, first look at why you're feeling stuck—what's wrong or missing. From there, you can get a good idea of what you're actually looking for.

For more experienced people who have been in the field for more than five or seven years, there's often a lack of growth. They're still in a senior role, maybe doing the same things they were doing two or three years ago, and it feels like they're not moving forward anymore. It might be time to explore: Is the manager's path right for me, or should I further specialize as an individual contributor?

For that, you really have to find out if management is something you want to do. It's a different job, and the skills that got you to a senior position as a designer might not be enough for management because it's a different beast. Once you have that clear, you can decide what you want to be doing.

Also, investigate if you want to move up at all, or if it's just external pressure. Sometimes you reach a point where you're not learning anymore. Throughout my career, I was always the most senior designer on the team, constantly pushing forward and learning. At some point, I felt like there was nothing left to do. My wife suggested, "Why don't you turn around and, instead of being the learner, become more of a teacher?" That can be very fulfilling and a great way of being impactful while growing professionally, even if you're not growing your craft as much anymore.

Meltem: I work with many people in this segment, including some with 30+ years of UX experience. There are unique challenges for this group because they often have existential crises: "I have maybe 10 more years left in my career. I want to spend it meaningfully. I'm not satisfied with repeating what I've done in another organization. I don't want one more raise or one more senior title. I want to do something meaningful that resonates with my inner essence."

For these clients, we really need to go on a journey to figure out: Is it about the sector? The kind of people you work with? How you'll get to work? The degree of innovation you'll experience? Maybe it's about teaching, maybe it's not about the craft, or maybe it's something that looks further and different from that. It's important to be authentic to yourself as you go through that exploration because we don't know what the answer will be.

What advice would you give to people who became managers because they thought that was the growth they were after, but now they're having second thoughts?

Meltem: One thing we sometimes forget is that anytime you're thinking of a career change within an organization—whether becoming a manager or switching your scope—it has to perfectly align with the needs of your current business.

In the case of that example, if you're a manager who realizes that track isn't your thing and you want to become an individual contributor or staff-level, you need to make sure your organization is one where that title isn't reduced to something that practically doesn't exist. Ask the honest question: Is there space for the kind of change I'm seeking, or is there buy-in to create that space? If not, you've got to be honest with yourself and explore what other organizations could be right for you to grow in a meaningful way. It has to be a win for both you and the organization, or it won't work.

Marvin: When you said "moving backwards," it triggered me a little, maybe because I've done it myself. I don't necessarily think the idea of moving upwards into managerial positions is truly correct, especially for UX professionals.

Why not go back into an individual contributor role? Obviously, check your finances to make sure it aligns with what your family or partner needs, but it doesn't have to be a demotion or something bad. Maybe it's just the right thing for you. Management is a different job than design.

I found myself having a seat at the table, discussing things that, when I started in design, I actually wanted to get away from. I didn't want to just have business meetings and talk strategy in a room full of alphas—I wanted to engage with designers. The more I moved up, the less I got to do that. That can be fine for some people, but you have to be aware of what you're doing. Choosing a path more in line with who you want to be isn't a step backwards at all.

Many people think that to grow, they need to be better at hard skills. Designers need to get better at Figma, learn design systems, or for researchers, it's about methods and more complex stuff. Is that it? Are hard skills the thing that will unlock your growth or career moving forward, or is there more to it?

Meltem: This topic is close to our hearts, both Marvin's and mine, because we work with a lot of senior professionals where hard skills are either already there or can be learned. Remember, hard skills today, working in tech for any UX professional, aren't solidified—new tools and ways of working require you to keep updating your hard skills.

But regardless, I genuinely doubt, especially in the age of AI where everything is accessible to learn and improvise, that hard skills alone will make the difference. It's really the ability to deploy your soft skills alongside those hard skills that matters. This is where you can network, craft your storytelling so people understand what you stand for and where you can drive impact, connect with people the right way, make intentional choices, and articulate the driving forces behind your initiatives.

Communication comes to mind as a key soft skill, but there are many more leadership skills—like how to build a team around an initiative or help people identify with and rally around the same goal. These are vital. I don't see anyone getting a job purely for hard skills because everyone can get them or claim to have them. It's the soft skills that really make you a brand and distinguish you as a UX professional.

Marvin: It's not 100% clear where we draw the line between hard and soft skills. If you're a manager or a very senior UX professional, collaboration, communication, and mentorship might be part of your hard skillset—things you absolutely must do for your craft.

What Meltem said about not relying just on the methods and tools of UX is very true. To get a promotion, you often need to be visible, which comes with negotiation, collaboration, aligning yourself with others' goals, having empathy for team members (not just users), and really being part of the whole organization, not just a designer in an organization.

That said, I want to make a case for the craftsperson. Many designers don't want growth that moves them into management or more strategic positions—they just want to be really good at their craft. This can be highly impactful. Think of design systems: if you're a great design systems designer or manager and you've mastered that part of the craft, you can greatly impact organizations by influencing how everything is built. So narrowing down on craft or hard skills can be a good growth path, though it's not the same as moving up the traditional career ladder. Both ways are fine—one requires more collaboration, negotiation, and business skills, while the other focuses on deepening expertise.

How can people stand out in the current UX market? How do they showcase their value as professionals?

Meltem: These two questions are intertwined because you should be pursuing what distinguishes you—not just anything. This is what coaching helps with. It's not about what everybody in your team pursues or what seems like the logical next step (like moving from senior product designer to manager).

You need to understand what makes you unique—something that both speaks to you, that you love, and where you have talent that's harder for others to match. You want to keep learning about it, and it has business value. This win-win—something you love that also has business value—is your unique talent. Make sure you pursue opportunities where this unique talent shines through, not just anything. That's what would make a difference for people pursuing their dreams.

Marvin: I often come across designers on the job hunt who are applying to everything they see just to increase their chances. What this actually does is wear them down and stress them out, because with more applications come more rejections. If you're not targeting roles that align with who you are, your chances of early rejection are even higher.

I work with clients to find out what they bring to the table and what roles really align, then devise a matching strategy. Application processes are matching processes. Companies aren't just looking for the "best designer"—they're looking for the best designer for their unique situation, organization, and team needs. The clearer you are on what you provide and how you may match their needs—and the more you have this pitch ready—the easier it is for stressed-out HR people to make that connection and see that you may be interesting.

There's another benefit: if you're clear about who you are, your strengths, and what you bring to the table, you'll be more confident in interviews. It becomes less about passing their test and more about talking about yourself, your strengths, and seeing how that matches what they need. It's a totally different conversation. I do have to admit, it can be hard to uncover what you're good at—and that's where our coaching work comes in.

Meltem: Absolutely, because so many people have impostor syndrome or have faced numerous rejections. They come saying, "I'm not really good at anything"—but that's never true. There's always something. And it's not about competition with others; it's about looking within yourself, your experience, the results you've created, the value you've brought, and what you really care about. Then you can speak authentically in interviews.

What advice would you give people who may be overlooking networking? How can it help them grow, how can they benefit from it?

Meltem: One thing I want people to remember is to be specific. When networking outside your organization, your first impression is usually the last impression. Be very clear about who you are, what you care about, what you want to build, and your background. This makes you easily memorable and understandable, so people think of you for future opportunities.

If you're posting on social media, have a clear niche that shows what you care about and what value you bring, instead of just having casual conversations without anything tangible coming from them. Networking has to come from a place where you already know what you stand for, what your strengths are, and what you care about. You need to know yourself so you can express it when networking.

Marvin: Many people think of networking as weird, salesy, transactional behavior. There's a flaw in this thinking. Don't approach people asking to "pick their brain" or requesting an hour of their time just to learn something—everyone's busy. Instead, offer yourself in service. Provide value to someone and then get value in exchange. So in a way, it is transactional, but you need to provide first.

Beyond that, it's about being part of the design community—engaging with peers, learning from them, and telling your stories, because there's always someone who can learn from your perspective. When I was reluctant to post or write because I didn't feel I had a voice or anything new to share, my coach told me, "They may not have seen it from your perspective. Your perspective is just as valuable." There's always someone coming after you, and sometimes it's important to be a representative of a certain group so people can relate and identify with that.

Another benefit of networking: it's healing to see you're not alone in your struggles. UX work can be hard and stressful when you're trying to fight for user-centered approaches in your organization. When you engage with peers, you discover that everyone has these fights and struggles, no matter how long they've been in the industry. Sharing different perspectives and tricks can be calming and healing.

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