Julian: Hello everybody and welcome again to the show today. We have two amazing guests with us. We have Ruby Pryor, welcome again Ruby to the show, and Emily Anderson, welcome Emily.
Ruby & Emily: Thank you.
Julian: So how about we start with a quick intro from your side? Maybe Ruby, you want to start telling the audience who you are, what you do?
Ruby: Sure, happy to share. So currently I'm the founder of a UX research and strategic design consulting firm called Rex. I live in Bangkok, Thailand, and I've been here for about six months. Prior to that, I lived in Singapore for five and a half years - that's where I started my company. I'm originally from Melbourne, Australia.
I've worked broadly in the field of design, more human-centered design and strategic design for most of my career, but in really different settings. I spent a lot of time working in management consulting firms doing this work in that context. I've also been in-house as a UX researcher. And then of course, now I'm out on my own doing this work at my own firm and working with loads of different clients all over the world.
Julian: Wow, I don't know how to follow that intro. Very great. Emily?
Emily: So hi, I'm Emily Anderson, founder of a design studio called Ampersand. Similar to Ruby, I have done a lot of different things in different settings, predominantly as a designer, but I've done things like service design, strategy, research - anything from deep discovery projects through to super tactical delivery of design. I've worked across B2B, B2C, in gambling, health tech, fintech, all sorts of things. I live in the UK, so we're juggling many time zones at the moment.
The Content Creation Journey
Julian: A little background on why I invited you to the show - you both write really interesting stuff. Ruby was actually part of the show in the first episode of the first season, so she knows I love her content. Emily creates really cool content about design, sometimes including research. Something we haven't talked about before, Ruby, and I'm interested to hear from both of you - when and how did you start with this content creation journey? When did you decide, "Okay, I'll start putting stuff out there"?
Emily: I think this is probably going to go way deeper than I intended. I started writing content online basically because my grandad passed away, and as part of that, my grandma was basically an edge case every single time we tried to cancel subscription services. I got really frustrated with it and thought, "Why are we not thinking about real-life situations that people experience every single day?"
I felt like people online were talking a lot about delight and "is this design better or this design better?" And I was like, why can we not show that edge cases, unhappy paths - all of those terms that in business we say we deprioritize because they don't help with revenue or driving the bottom line? I really wanted to show that actually designing for real life and context is good for business, and I wanted to influence designers outside of my own practice that we should be considering this kind of thing.
It's evolved since then. I've been writing online for about a year or so. I like to try and share things that will help people, either from a design perspective or thinking about research, because not everybody has access or tools to learn how to do research.
Ruby: Emily and I started at a really similar time, and I think that's one of the reasons we connected - it felt like we were going on this journey together. Content creation had been on my to-do list for a really long time. I'd see great stuff people were writing on LinkedIn and think, "I wish I could do more of that."
But what really unleashed me on content creation was getting laid off. I lost my job and felt I had nothing to lose and everything to gain. I really wanted to start by sharing that this had happened to me - I needed to update my network, but also provide a narrative that felt authentic. Everyone processes a layoff differently, and for me, it was really challenging. I wanted to be honest about that online.
There's a lot of temptation to say "laid off, but onto bigger and better things." I wanted to say, "I've been laid off and I'm really sad." That message seemed to resonate with a lot of people and inspired me to keep going. After that initial post, I started writing about job hunting, the skills I had, what I thought I could contribute. Suddenly I started getting traction and realized I'm writing things people are interested in.
Emily: The thing that's really cool about it is it's actually like your own design and research project because you're always looking for signals - are people interested in this? Why did that not work? I think it was the first time in my career that I could brand me. I wasn't doing anything for a company, wasn't adhering to brand guidelines. I could really play around with who am I as a designer and what do I want to put out into the world?
Ruby: You feel like a little product manager sometimes, thinking about how to track experiments and what signals you're getting. I've found it a fantastic way to prototype offers - most offers I put out into the world start as a post. If they get enough traction and positive signals, I'll move through the next process in product development. I love having that space to experiment and get early feedback.
From Content to Courses and Speaking
Julian: All these things you've been trying out led to cool stuff - talking at events, creating courses. Ruby, you now have this writing for impact course. How did it come about? How did you go from creating content about being laid off to a course? And Emily, how did you go from analyzing bad journeys to doing speaking engagements?
Ruby: The writing for impact course is actually the second big course I put out. The first was around what I call "impact sizing" - essentially the methodology to put a dollar value on impact. I wrote it all out in a post, did all the math, was completely transparent. At the bottom I wrote one little line: "I'm thinking of developing a course about this. If you're interested, just comment."
This was maybe my fourth post in my LinkedIn renaissance after my layoff. I probably broke all the rules the gurus tell you about writing on LinkedIn - I just wrote what I needed to write. That post really blew up, got reshared constantly, and I had loads of people commenting that they'd be interested.
I started following up with more concrete things - released a waiting list, created a free event. I'd never done anything like that before, but I had a hundred people sign up and I was a nobody. I had maybe 2,000 connections, mainly just from being in business for a while. I really had no following to speak of, but people were expressing sincere interest.
I ran the free course, got testimonials, shared those, and then was able to release it as a paid product with great traction. That started the playbook for me. Even with the writing course, I'd start sharing content about it - how I format a slide, how I structure a report, how I use the pyramid principle. When I get traction and good feedback, I ask what's the next smallest risk I can take? Often that's a landing page or waiting list.
You need to see if someone's interested and then only if they are, you make the content. You've got to know you can do it, but it's okay if you don't have it all done when you're receiving sign-ups.
Emily: Ruby's speaking to me because I'm definitely one of those people who wants to perfect everything first. But this is why I believe designers and researchers make bloody good founders - we're great at understanding signals and making things. More people need confidence that they have stuff to share and that all the skills you apply to projects, you can apply to your own thing.
Mine's a bit different - I don't have the breadth of offerings Ruby has. I started doing some speaking, honestly inspired by Ruby. I really wanted to amplify my voice and tell my story. I wanted people to feel something, to get in front of people even though it makes me feel sick.
I started with local events, just saying "I'll stand up there, I'll give it a go." They went really well and I got such a buzz. By complete chance, a friend said there's a conference with applications open. I thought, "Who's going to pay for me to fly to Stockholm to speak about something I'm not even credible to speak about?" But then I realized you're credible to speak about your own story and no one can tell you that you're wrong.
By luck, I got accepted. Standing in front of 300 people with a photo of my grandparents was a complete highlight of my career. Afterwards, so many people said "I feel seen, I've experienced this myself" or "I never considered this before - I work in pet insurance, what happens when someone's pet passes away?" That felt pretty cool.
Should People Create Content?
Julian: So one thing - Ruby, you create content and sell courses; Emily, you started sharing experiences. They're different paths. Some people ask me, "Should I start writing content? I don't want people to judge me or I'm not after personal branding." Would you recommend people create content? If so, why?
Ruby: Every anxiety it's possible to have about writing content, I've had. There are so many reasons not to do it. When I was employed, I was nervous - what if I write about job hunting tips and my manager thinks I'm leaving? There are real concerns, like regulations if you work for publicly listed companies about what you can say during trading windows. If you work for a company, usually the work products you do are owned by that company.
However, I think about content creation as increasing the surface area for luck. It puts me out there so many more times, increasing the chance of finding clients, students, opportunities, speaking engagements. Something I've struggled with is articulating the intangibles about working with me on my CV. I can tell you my skills, but it's hard to get a sense of who I am and how I think just from a CV.
Often interviews go really well for me, but getting to the interview is a challenge. If you have an online presence where folks feel like they know you and can see those intangibles, it can really help in job searches and other opportunities.
Emily: I think there are a few things. First, I have never learned more than when I started writing content. You come up with an idea, get a signal, and think "I want to write about this." Then you think how to make it the most helpful, so you pull in different resources and theory. You do your own research and explore things you may never have been able to do in a job.
When I was in a full-time job, writing content changed how people perceived me. People in other departments who didn't work with me directly could see what I was writing about, and suddenly they were like "I saw this thing you wrote and you influenced me." From an influence and social proof perspective, it's really great.
It gives you a platform to speak about whatever you want. My best friend is a designer recently diagnosed with ADHD, and she wants to help other designers with ADHD understand their workflow. It doesn't have to be theory or events - if you've got something to say, go ahead and say it. You'll probably help someone else along the way.
And you get to meet really cool people. Ruby and I connected on LinkedIn - I'm going to Bangkok in two weeks to see her! I would never have thought that before. Even if none of the other stuff happened - entrepreneurship, speaking internationally - it would have been worth it just to meet the awesome people I genuinely count as friends.
Ruby: One anxiety I want to address, especially as a woman - people are going to be mean, question your credibility. LinkedIn is often dominated by men in those "top 10 accounts to follow" lists. It can feel like it's not the most inviting space to add your voice.
I want to share how that's actually gone for me - it's been incredibly minor. This was a much bigger problem in my head than in reality. Yes, I'll get people commenting that they don't agree - that's fine. You don't owe them anything. You don't have to justify or respond to every comment. Generally, particularly on LinkedIn, the tone is friendly, people are nice, and really negative incidents are vanishingly small.
Emily: I had a couple stick with me. I made a sweeping statement about not using personas, using behavioral archetypes instead. Somebody commented "you're 400 words of irrelevant." I shut my laptop and was so upset. My husband now calls me "400 words of irrelevant" all the time!
But if that's the one thing that stuck with me out of over a hundred posts, and generally people are so supportive with strangers rooting for you on every post, it's not all the time. It's good to have people constructively disagree because nobody wants to be right all the time.
Ruby: It does get easier the more you do it, but I wouldn't say it's ever easy. I have a backlog of things I've been too anxious to publish because I think they're too contentious. Often when I show them to someone, they're like "This is fine." We tend to be more of a filter to ourselves than we need to be.
Research and Design Collaboration
Julian: Speaking of connecting, how about we talk about collaboration between researchers and designers? I always say designers are our closest cousins - we normally sit with designers, collaborate closely. Sometimes designers do research. Emily, you post about research and quant/qual data. How do you see this siblings relationship?
Emily: I think collaborating with researchers and content designers is amazing. I've worked with some incredible family members along the way. The relationships have been very different - sometimes with dedicated researchers, the roles are more clear cut. They're leading interviews and I'm looking for where I can add design insights.
Sometimes the line is really blurry. As a designer, you want to dig into certain things and ask questions. Sometimes researchers feel like they want to spin up designs but feel like they can't. I think it comes down to figuring out your relationship with that person - not just design and research, but being open about where our lines blur.
Are you happy with me leading bits? Jumping in and asking questions? Are you happy with me making recommendations on design decisions based on your insights? Sometimes people feel like they can't because they'll step on someone's toes. I believe the more you can blur those lines, the better.
Ruby: Broadly, I agree. Building a strong working relationship with designers is really important. Design is often the first concrete way our recommendations manifest, particularly at the tactical level. Building that relationship is crucial both generally and specifically for how you're going to get research done.
If I was working with someone like Emily who has research skills, it would be a shame not to use them. Whereas other designers might be really into animation or interaction design but don't have as much research skill set. It's about understanding your specific circumstance and making the right decisions for the team members involved.
Emily: We always say design is brought in too late, but research is brought in too late too. There will be a last-minute panic - "this feature has been fully designed and developed, can you just do some research and check it?" without any context. It's frustrating when lots of questions are being asked but "we just need to get it done."
If we bring all disciplines in earlier - content design, for example - the better. Otherwise we leave it far too late and nothing can be done.
Being Business-Focused
Julian: Ruby, you write a lot about assigning monetary value and talking about business impact. How would you recommend researchers change from a mindset and communication perspective? How can they be more business-focused when presenting their work?
Ruby: The first thing is spending time with stakeholders to understand what that actually means. I see a lot of discourse about being more business-focused at a high level - "think about dollars and cents" - but we need to understand very specifically how that manifests under the scope of the research or products we're working on.
Two different stakeholders can both focus on increasing shareholder value but have incredibly different remits. Someone on growth and acquisition looks at very different things than someone focused on profitability and reducing costs. If you're working with a stakeholder whose remit is profitability and you're suggesting things for user acquisition, you're still business-minded, but that's not going to come off well.
My recommendation is understanding very specifically how business metrics and concepts show up with the products we're working on. I've worked on lots of different research scopes, and the specificity of metrics some PMs work with is mind-blowing. You really need to understand why that PM is focused on that metric and how it layers up to broader company metrics. When you can connect your research to that level, that's when you get stakeholders excited.
Final Tips
Julian: What are three tips you would give to first researchers or first designers building something from scratch?
Emily: First, try to collaborate as much as you can - not just between design and research, but with the business. Work in the open. Don't wait for a huge reveal at the end. Show things openly to help people understand what you do, because you might be working with people who don't understand design or have a different version of it.
Second, have belief and faith in yourself. Try not to second-guess yourself because you do know what you're doing. It can feel scary if you don't have another one of you there. Try to be bold in your decisions or de-risk them as much as you can. Even if you don't know the answers, that's fine - just say "I've made this decision, this is the risk, this is the impact, this is what we don't know."
Third, be really realistic about expectations. When you're the only person, you want to do everything and promise everything. Just being super realistic about what you can achieve and doing that thing really well. Don't promise the ocean. Start with a sliver and show you can execute really well. Don't burn yourself out.
Ruby: Think really carefully about system building versus execution and value delivery. Building systems is awesome long-term, but short-term it doesn't show impact to stakeholders the way you want. If you can come in and think tactically about quick wins in front of people who matter, that sets you up for success and gives you credibility to spend time on system building later.
Second, add structure to your communications. This is the number one thing that sets people apart - the ability to write and speak with structure and succinctly. Think about how you communicate not just in formal deliverables but in Slack messages and emails. The more you can make that easy to consume, the more influence you're likely to have.
Third, spend time summing up and communicating the impact you've made over time. It's unlikely anyone else will do that for you. Your organization may have formal structures, but even if they don't, take time to sum up your influence and impact. Share it with key stakeholders, on LinkedIn, or keep a record for yourself.
Julian: Fantastic. So my tip to all of you is to follow Ruby and Emily. Where can people find you?
Emily: I'm predominantly on LinkedIn. I've been having dreams about starting a newsletter, so that's on the verge, and starting a video platform. But predominantly LinkedIn and a newsletter coming very soon.
Ruby: Same as Emily - you can find me on LinkedIn. I also have aspirations for further content platforms, but LinkedIn is definitely the easiest one.
Julian: Great. This podcast is available on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, YouTube - we're available on all platforms for audio and video. We have a blog at finderstobuilders.com. Thanks a lot for joining!
Ruby & Emily: Thank you!
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