I recently had the privilege of sitting down with Joe Natoli for another episode of "Off My Bookshelf", a mini-series where I interview people who inspire me and whose books have earned a permanent spot on my shelf. This conversation was particularly special because Joe's updated edition of The User Experience Team of One, a book has deeply influenced my own journey, including inspiring me to start this very show.
Stay tuned and watch this conversation with the one and only Joe Natoli (part 2 coming up next week!).
Disclaimer: this episode summary has been done with the help of AI
The User Experience Team of One, Revisited
When Joe first discovered the original book years ago, his reaction was immediate: "Man, I wish I'd written this book." What struck him was its clarity, honesty, and generous approach, qualities that cut through the artifice and formality often surrounding UX discourse. The book felt like an invitation, making our field accessible to everyone.
I completely understand this reaction because I had the same experience when I read it. This book inspired my transition from researcher to what I'm doing now with Finders to Builders and all my content about researchers becoming solar researchers. It's amazing how certain books can redirect your entire career path.
The updated edition, featuring a foreword by Jesse James Garrett, represents a full-circle moment for Joe, who credits Garrett and Alan Cooper with launching his career three decades ago. As he told me, if someone had predicted this collaboration 30 years ago, he wouldn't have believed it.
Check out the episode on Spotify
Why This Book Still Matters in 2025
During our conversation, I asked Joe why this book remains relevant today. His answer was enlightening: despite technological advances and methodological shifts, the core challenges remain unchanged. We UX professionals are still asked to do more with less—fewer resources, tighter budgets, compressed timelines, and limited organizational understanding of what good UX requires.
What has intensified, Joe explained, is the emphasis on speed. While Agile methodologies promised faster delivery, corporate interpretation often translates to "skip research and go straight to design and build." This rush has derailed what seemed like growing organizational appreciation for user experience work.
As Joe put it: "The minute you say to corporations, 'Hey, this can be faster,' they're like, 'Oh, fast. Yes.' So everything has to be fast now."
Where We're Failing at Communication
I pressed Joe on where he sees UX professionals struggling with communication, and his response was a reality check I wasn't fully prepared for. He identified a critical blind spot: we're too focused on ourselves. We spend excessive time discussing UX principles, processes, and procedures while remaining disconnected from the broader business concerns that drive organizational decision-making.
This hit home for me because I see it constantly online—even from the most trusted organizations and biggest names in our field. We're always talking about UX, always talking about our own stuff. As Joe bluntly stated: "This is not helping."
The harsh reality? When stakeholders say "no" to our research requests or UX improvements, it's rarely about not respecting UX. These decisions often stem from:
Competing organizational priorities
Slim profit margins on specific products
Executive-level constraints we never see
Structural conflicts built into company hierarchies
Joe's perspective shifted my thinking: "Maybe the larger part of it is the reasons that you're being told no have nothing to do with you, have nothing to do with UX... It has to do with decisions that are made in corner offices by people you've never met."
The Value Loop: A Framework That Changed My Approach
One of the most valuable concepts Joe shared was his "value loop"—something I've written about recently and have started applying in my own work. While we UX professionals rightfully advocate for users, we must acknowledge we're "playing a game on a playing field that has very specific rules"—and those rules center on business value.
Joe explained the cycle:
Users find something that appears valuable
They try it and receive genuine value
They engage further (download, buy, subscribe)
The business sees measurable value (money made or saved)
The business invests more in improving the product
Both sides must win for the cycle to continue. Joe's controversial but practical stance: "Business first, user second"—not because it's morally superior, but because it's the only path to doing meaningful work for users at scale.
I could see the audience reaction he described when he says this on stage—that moment of "I thought you were on our side." But as he explained to me, and as I've come to understand in my own work: "This is the only way you get to do good things for good people. You gotta convince these people that it's gonna get them what they want as well."
Starting with Nothing: Advice for Scrappy Teams
Since many of my audience members work in teams of one or small teams with limited resources, I asked Joe for practical advice on getting started. His response was characteristically direct: "Do something. Stop complaining about the state of things."
His practical starting points resonated with my own experience:
Ask for 15 minutes with stakeholders to understand current processes
Map out "how does this work right now?" with boxes and arrows
Identify inefficiencies, redundancies, and pain points
Focus conversations on what takes too long or costs too much
Ask his favorite question: "What do you want to happen here?"
That last question is gold. As Joe explained, often the real answer reveals personal stakes and fears driving resistance to UX work. Understanding these human motivations opens paths to incremental improvements.
The Inch-by-Inch Strategy That Works
Joe's approach to enterprise UX improvement particularly struck me because it mirrors what I've seen work in my own consulting. Progress happens gradually through tiny wins that build trust:
Standardize button hierarchies across the system
Fix alignment issues that create cognitive friction
Improve error messaging
Clarify language and labeling
Each small victory demonstrates value and builds credibility for larger UX investments. As Joe told me: "I'm just looking for a positive win, especially when I can't do any research."
His philosophy is refreshingly practical: "I don't care what I have the approval or authority to do. It doesn't ever cross my mind. It doesn't frustrate me. I don't give a shit. What can we get done and how does that show this person that they're gonna get what they want?"
What resonated most with you from this conversation? I'd love to hear your thoughts on the value loop concept and whether you've experienced similar challenges in your own UX work.
If you enjoyed Part 1, you’ll LOVE Part 2. Stay tuned and make sure to subscribe.
